Bottle to Throttle Update

General Discussion Board. Public access. The opinions expressed here may not reflect official York Soaring policies and procedures. Posts deleted after 240 days.
Post Reply
User avatar
Charles Petersen
Posts: 1900
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:48 pm
ysa membership #: 150
Skype: onewhisky
Location: Toronto or Florida

Bottle to Throttle Update

Post by Charles Petersen » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:26 pm

I found this in the Cu Nim newsletter:
Update to CARs 602.03 effective 2018-12-11:
602.03 No person shall act as a crew member of an aircraft
(a) within 12 hours after consuming an alcoholic beverage;
(b) while under the influence of alcohol; or
(c) while using any drug that impairs the person’s faculties to the extent that the safety of the aircraft or of persons on board the aircraft is endangered in any way.
Perhaps it's on the agenda for our instructors' meeting...
They will soar on wings like eagles - Isaiah 40:3`

User avatar
Tim Wood
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:47 pm
ysa membership #: 391
Location: Toronto/Pincher Creek/Invermere

Re: Bottle to Throttle Update

Post by Tim Wood » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:57 am

Maybe we need a policy on POT now?
How about banning it from the field?
Cheers, Tim

Jason Scott
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon May 08, 2017 5:28 pm
twitter: @westwoodtrim

Re: Bottle to Throttle Update

Post by Jason Scott » Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:36 am

Likely a simple update to club expectations, rather than banning anything from the site. Despite the range of public opinion, banning one substance while allowing another would likely cause contention.

I could also be completely misinformed, but I was under the impression the commercial standards for marijuana were 0 use within 28 days of operating as a member of a flight crew. Similar to police and emergency services. York may not officially be a commercial operation, but certain expectations translate from one industry to the next.

It’s always been up to the individual to follow the rules, and will continue to be so, just with an extra 4 hours added in.

User avatar
Stan Martin
Posts: 562
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:07 pm

Re: Bottle to Throttle Update

Post by Stan Martin » Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:04 pm

It is something that has been discussed by the Board and will be presented to the membership.

User avatar
Charles Petersen
Posts: 1900
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:48 pm
ysa membership #: 150
Skype: onewhisky
Location: Toronto or Florida

Re: Bottle to Throttle Update

Post by Charles Petersen » Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:31 pm

You'll note that the prohibition is either 'within 12 hours', or 'while under the influence'.

I remember well the surprise when, after a long day and evening finishing the interior for a scheduled opening of a new branch, we all went to the motel to sleep. But at breakfast the next day one of our colleagues produced a borrowed breathalyser, and most everyone still blew over .08%.

If you drink enough, 8 hours may well not be long enough to metabolize the alcohol.
They will soar on wings like eagles - Isaiah 40:3`

User avatar
Martin Sanderse
Posts: 184
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:01 pm
ysa membership #: 78
Skype: martinsanderse
Location: GTA

Re: Bottle to Throttle Update

Post by Martin Sanderse » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:35 am

COPA published this summary of pot and a medical. Usage within 12 months is a problem to the examiner as per a TCCA letter.

https://copanational.org/en/2019/04/18/ ... -category/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
AGL :-)

User avatar
Tim Wood
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:47 pm
ysa membership #: 391
Location: Toronto/Pincher Creek/Invermere

Re: Bottle to Throttle Update

Post by Tim Wood » Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:02 am

Thanks Martin
The bottom line is
Use of Pot invalidates your medical certificate
Thats a poor trade!

Cheers, Tim Wood

User avatar
Charles Petersen
Posts: 1900
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:48 pm
ysa membership #: 150
Skype: onewhisky
Location: Toronto or Florida

Re: Bottle to Throttle Update

Post by Charles Petersen » Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:13 am

It would be prudent to ensure that all members, including especially new and young ones, are made aware of the potential and serious consequences of pot use, now that both recreational and medical use is legal in Canada.

The Board will, I assume, publish a policy.

And me, I'll have to stick with my red wine and single malt, a minimum of 12 hours prior, obviously...
They will soar on wings like eagles - Isaiah 40:3`

User avatar
Doug Carman
Posts: 493
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 9:15 am
ysa membership #: 437
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Re: Bottle to Throttle Update

Post by Doug Carman » Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:28 pm

York already has a policy - no cannabis at York Soaring. Period.

Secondly, the air regulations speak for themselves. See "(c) while using any drug that impairs the person’s faculties to the extent that the safety of the aircraft or of persons on board the aircraft is endangered in any way."

User avatar
Charles Petersen
Posts: 1900
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:48 pm
ysa membership #: 150
Skype: onewhisky
Location: Toronto or Florida

Re: Bottle to Throttle Update

Post by Charles Petersen » Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:37 pm

York may well have that policy, but do the members, - even the longtime ones, know about it. Seems from the posts on this thread that they do not. So how do we/should we bring it to the membership's attention?

Putting up a sign that says NO DOPE might alarm the guests. Posting it here or on Slack, will certainly not reach all, - or even most of the members.

I'm being serious; any suggestions?
They will soar on wings like eagles - Isaiah 40:3`

User avatar
Martin Sanderse
Posts: 184
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:01 pm
ysa membership #: 78
Skype: martinsanderse
Location: GTA

Re: Bottle to Throttle Update

Post by Martin Sanderse » Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:28 pm

There is an instructor's meeting, and annual sign-up soon. That gives the club many options. For example:

Notice on membership form
Review with members when the medical is checked
Instructors to review with students
Review on annual check flights, along with other club rules/policies
etc.

i guess the CFi could decide.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
AGL :-)

User avatar
Charles Petersen
Posts: 1900
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:48 pm
ysa membership #: 150
Skype: onewhisky
Location: Toronto or Florida

Re: Bottle to Throttle Update

Post by Charles Petersen » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:35 pm

Yes, many ways to accomplish this. We, the club/board need to select the one and implement it before it is too late (e.g. a notice on the membership form when many have already signed up).
They will soar on wings like eagles - Isaiah 40:3`

Jason Scott
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon May 08, 2017 5:28 pm
twitter: @westwoodtrim

Re: Bottle to Throttle Update

Post by Jason Scott » Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:55 am

Case and Point, even I didn’t know we have a ban in place. I would assume that like any aerodrome we enforce no smoking, and I’d expect no vaping, on associated parts of the field. The trouble now that cannabis is legal, an outright ban on the entire property (including campground) can still be a challenge.

I’d like to know the details from a medical examiner (Leili would be knowledgeable) as to the actual status of a pilot’s medical certificate, after acknowledgment and review of recreational use. From what I understand, provided the person notifies their medical examiner, and the case is reviewed, their medical is not invalidated.

It’s always interesting discovering the nuances that result in the months/years following a change in laws like this.

As for the 12 hours, that one is easy. Evening beers, mean a choice to not fly first thing in the morning.

User avatar
Mark Araujo
Posts: 132
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:30 pm

Re: Bottle to Throttle Update

Post by Mark Araujo » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:35 am

The next nuance has materialized. TC has changed the CARS from an outright ban to a Fit for Duty model with a 28 day limit - will be interesting to see how this trickles down the medical guidance. Working for a police service I have been living and breathing the constantly evolving laws and associated guidance for over a year now - you should see some of our flow charts to try and understand it all. Out of interest, we also operate on a Fit for Duty model for our staff.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/transp ... -1.5164518
Mark Araujo / Waterloo, Ontario

Post Reply